"The solution to any problem ? work, love, money, whatever ? is to go fishing, and the worse the problem, the longer the trip should be." ? John Gierach
Big game hunting in Utah and elsewhere ? ask questions, share advice, general discussions
Re: RAC Meetings
by klbzdad ? Mar 29, '13, 1:06
Muley73 wrote:Yeah Hitler references on a public forum are usually a good idea.klb,
Wondering if you had some appropriate apparel suggestions for attending RAC meetings as an independent sportsman?
I don't wear my UWC shirts to RAC meetings, if that's what you meant. Might as well dress the part you're playing though, so SFW it up buddy! Seems that face to face we all suddenly have the same interests at heart and are friends until Dear Leader speaks his mind to the local chapter leadership and steering committee. Its not hard to determine, by hearing someone who supports one group over the masses, who they associate with. That's a pretty safe assumption there. Sometimes, our very own DWR folks show their group preferences despite their uniform.
I could be wrong but the reference to Hitler was only to make a point that LEADERSHIP can sometimes bring along masses for the wrong reasons.
But you have a great Easter weekend, Cody.
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Re: RAC Meetings
by proutdoors ? Mar 29, '13, 1:17
Finnegan wrote:I agree that outdoorsmen should get involved even if for no other reason than to get educated about how wildlife management really "works" in Utah.The better educated I get, the more I find wisdom in the words and deeds of Finnegan! I too, as several who have posted on this thread, once spent considerable time/energy playing the game. And I too, have learned it is a complete WASTE of time. Its about as wise as pulling the lever in Vegas. Sure its fun, and once in a while you might get a few pennies back, but the game is rigged, the House ALWAYS comes out ahead. In the case of wildlife issues, it is every bit as rigged, one might feel good for going and 'getting off the bench', but you just as well keep dreaming someday you'll be a starting pitcher for the Yankees. As will ALL politics, I assert the best way to make a positive impact is through educating others, mentoring others, and standing on your principles. Going to dog and pony shows, at the end of the day, gets little done........BECAUSE THE GAME IS RIGGED!But having completed my own education, I've decided to scrape the sht off my boots and hike a different trail. I've dropped my affiliation with any and all organizations and doubt I'll ever stand before a RAC or the WB again.
My time and energy are much better spent as a mentor/instructor than as a politician. Feels a lot better, too.
Participation in government is important. But the world is full of important things. The way I see it, a good dad spending time with his kids in the outdoors does more for the future of wildlife than any decision the WB will ever make.
People can fight a tyranny imposed by an outside force. People cannot fight a tyranny that we impose on ourselves.
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Re: RAC Meetings
by Muley73 ? Mar 29, '13, 1:26
No not at all, that's my point. Sportsman should all go and speak up. You may think you know me or my motives. But really you have no idea. When I want something done then I go thru the process. Others should most certainly do the same.
Yeah still not sold on the whole Hitler reference. Got still say not the best analogy. IMHO
You also have a great Easter. Weather looks to be perfect!
The longer I spend on this forum, the better I feel about being me.
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Re: RAC Meetings
by elkfromabove ? Mar 29, '13, 5:08
Muley73 wrote:Klb,
No not at all, that's my point. Sportsman should all go and speak up. You may think you know me or my motives. But really you have no idea. When I want something done then I go thru the process. Others should most certainly do the same.Yeah still not sold on the whole Hitler reference. Got still say not the best analogy. IMHO
You also have a great Easter. Weather looks to be perfect!
I'm sorry you didn't like the analogy, but most of the time a person has to go to extremes to make a point quickly and succinctly. Trying to be politically correct just muddies the waters.
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Re: RAC Meetings
by elkfromabove ? Mar 29, '13, 5:15
swbuckmaster wrote:+100 pro
+100 broadsideshotThe dog and phony show is rigged!
It may be rigged now (or not), but reason will prevail as long as reasonable men also prevail!
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Re: RAC Meetings
by wileywapati ? Mar 29, '13, 5:45
I'll open the curtain a bit for you and 73.
Basically these big game rules are decided by about 12 people. Most all of them are reps from the hunting groups like SFW MDF UBA and so on. When the Division has a proposal to run through the RACs they'll pull together a meeting of these same guys and have them bless what they are going to propose. Most of the time the groups will want changes made before they offer support and will discuss them at this time. I declined this last invitation via e mail a week or so ago for the permit numbers.
Now 99% of these groups are making money by selling conservation permits and we wonder why the public has no voice?? We wonder why we have built a statewide hunting preserve for the rich and famous?? We wonder why these groups don't want us unwashed pukes to keep or expand ANY opportunity.
Any illusion of an honest public input process was blasted in the WB meeting for option 2 when Byron Bateman gave the DWR a check for $300K before the vote right in the middle of the meeting. Add to that Jake Albrecht stumbling through the proposal that DC had so eloquently composed for him and it don't take long to see the manure pile.
Carry on with the fantasy that your efforts can trump corrupt individuals, corrupt leaders, all the way to that pr!ck Herbert and a corrupt system..
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Re: RAC Meetings
by ntrl_brn_rebel ? Mar 29, '13, 7:51
You guys are recommending that we all sit back, do nothing and watch the ball roll as it is a complete waste of time??
I think your all dead wrong!
IF 300 of you naysayers showed up to every RAC Meeting screaming, kicking, and yelling **** would get done...
Lets look at option 2- I attended the Northern RAC and I would guess about sixty "citizens" were there if my memory serves me correctly, IMO the majority of them and groups in attendance that stood up wanted Option 2, not by much, but I would say the majority wanted "change" For sure there was no overwhelming support one way or the other....
I was at the wildlife board meeting as well......same thing, cept I would say it was about 50/50, same thing though no overwhelming support going one way or the other.....and now you all say they went against the majority...I call BS.
The problem is you and most of the public wont show up, most of the members of this forum do not give a damn, and like you think its a waste of time.....you guys dont like that big/powerful sfw shows up and puts its members at the meetings......I get it.....but until other groups step up and "the common" man gets involved....your stuck with what we have now, 15 people at a meeting, half being members of that damn SFW......
In the words of the former ProOutdoors.....Put up or Shut Up......(I think thats how it went) 
I honestly WANT to see groups like the UWC blow up the RAC's and Wildlife Board meetings with people......I want opposition, I truly believe without it, things get stuck in a rut!
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Re: RAC Meetings
by wileywapati ? Mar 29, '13, 9:07
BOU, UBA and MDF all spoke against 2.
Go back in to the WB work session
Recordings. 2 was a done deal in
March I believe.
The only way this system is going to
Work is when the corruption goes away.
How bout statewide archery Reb? Ya had
Beaver and Dixie SFW chapters, with no
Data, no science end this opportunity.
How about AR-301?? Tony Abbott and John
Bair SFW board members at the time end
This hunt. Ask them they'll admit it.
Like I said earlier, I've been at this for almost
As long as you've been on this planet. ATV
Committee, SITLA Committee, Elk Committee
Alternate for the Mule Deer Committee
And the Great Salt Lake Waterfowl Advisory
Group. I have a pretty good handle on how
**** gets done.
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Re: RAC Meetings
by ntrl_brn_rebel ? Mar 29, '13, 9:47
And yes, SFW was the only MAJOR group to support option 2...I re-read my post and my applogies, I should have clarified...
There were other groups that did support option 2...small groups I rarely here about..
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